Question about deleting feeders

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EP_explorer
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Question about deleting feeders

Post by EP_explorer »

I found one strange feeders behavior.

For example I create feeders - it works aggregations appears in total elements. When I decide to delete feeder, do it, save rule and found that sum in total didn't disappear. They disappear only in when I restart server.

Is it normal behavior or may be I should simply put some parameter in .cfg file or somewhere else and totals begin disappear. Can anybody help in this question?
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Re: Question about deleting feeders

Post by qml »

It is expected behaviour; TM1 doesn't remove feeders during a given server session. Bouncing the server or unloading and loading the cube again is needed to clear feeders.
Last edited by qml on Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question about deleting feeders

Post by lotsaram »

qml wrote:It is expected behaviour, TM1 doesn't remove feeders during a given server session. Bouncing the server or unloading and loading again the cube is needed to clear feeders.
More that that, if using persistent feeders then a server bounce won't clear feeders unless the .feeder file(s) are also deleted. This is a big (well even bigger than before) watchout when developing rules.
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Re: Question about deleting feeders

Post by EP_explorer »

qml wrote:It is expected behaviour; TM1 doesn't remove feeders during a given server session. Bouncing the server or unloading and loading the cube again is needed to clear feeders.
Thank you for answer. Can you say what you mean in "bouncing the server". English isn't my native language and I didn't find such expression in dictionary. You meant "restart server"?
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Re: Question about deleting feeders

Post by lotsaram »

bounce server = slang for "restart TM1 service or application."
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Re: Question about deleting feeders

Post by EP_explorer »

lotsaram wrote:bounce server = slang for "restart TM1 service or application."
Thank you
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Re: Question about deleting feeders

Post by Wim Gielis »

lotsaram wrote:More that that, if using persistent feeders then a server bounce won't clear feeders unless the .feeder file(s) are also deleted. This is a big (well even bigger than before) watchout when developing rules.
Indeed, for TM1 consultants, this calls for either access to the data directory, either asking IT to delete the feeders files...

So feature this will not be equally interesting at all customers where we create and follow up TM1 models.

Does anyone have an indication of how big these feeders files can be for a very big cube relying heavily on rules? For instance, a cube containing only rules, pulling data from elsewhere, a lot of scenarios feeding each other, size about 1.5 GB in memory?

Wim
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Re: Question about deleting feeders

Post by lotsaram »

I think this is a feature that should interest all customers on 9.4 or earlier. Server load time on a large rule heavy model can quite literally go from 2 hours to 2 minutes using persistent feeders.

In terms of how big feeder files can be, as with all things TM1, "it depends". You won't get the same economy of size on disk vs. in memory for feeders vs. cube data as once loaded into memory a feeder is very economical. If you take a similarly sized, dimensioned and dense data cube and look at the size of the .cub file is this would be the best guide as to the size of a .feeder file for an exactly fed, otherwise identical rule driven cube. Maybe allow a little more for the .feeder file as some degree of overfeeding is probably inevitable.
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Re: Question about deleting feeders

Post by Alan Kirk »

Wim Gielis wrote:
lotsaram wrote:More that that, if using persistent feeders then a server bounce won't clear feeders unless the .feeder file(s) are also deleted. This is a big (well even bigger than before) watchout when developing rules.
Indeed, for TM1 consultants, this calls for either access to the data directory, either asking IT to delete the feeders files...
Leaving aside my personal view that any IT department which denies a TM1 admin access to the server box needs a good kicking (security is one thing, securing-to-the-point-of-disability is another), you may not be thinking laterally enough there.

Remember that even when you don't have direct access to the data directory... TI does. And the AsciiDelete function doesn't just delete ASCII files.
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Re: Question about deleting feeders

Post by Wim Gielis »

Hi Alan, nice idea. I will remember it.
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Re: Question about deleting feeders

Post by David Usherwood »

Don't forget this TI command:
DeleteAllPersistentFeeders

Deletes any .feeder files that have persisted. When this function is used, all cubes are marked as "do not save feeders" so a subsequent "SaveData" will not persist feeders which means all feeders will be re-calculated on a server re-start.

Personally, when researching persistent feeders, I've just deleted the .feeders file by hand. My large systems typically have heavily conditionalised feeders and persistent feeders need removing if you are turning versions etc on and off.
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