TM1 and Vista

[John Hobson]

Hi

I am contemplating a new laptop, and they all seem to come with Vista installed these days.

What is the status of TM1 on Vista? Is it supported?

J

[Guillaume Galtier]

Not sure, but i think that it is not supported at this time.
There's a 9.4 Beta version, still in test ....

[Martin Ryan]

You can request a "down"grade to XP. Apparently that's very common. Mainstream support for XP from M$ stops in April 09, though "extended" support will go beyond 2010.

Why is it a downgrade to stick with something better?

Martin

[John Hobson]

Thanks guys

I note that MS have now apparently ceased selling XP.

I was kind of hoping it might be possible to start off with a brand new laptop without 5 years worth of "upgrades" needing to be downloaded and applied to XP Sp2 before I do anything else

To be honest I've never used Vista so have no idea what it may or may not do.

Is Vista really that awful?

J

Fewer than one in 10 developers are writing applications for Microsoft's Vista operating system, according to new statistics from analyst house Evans Data.

Evans Data's Spring 2008 North American Development Survey found that eight per cent of developers are working on Vista applications, compared to nearly 50 per cent on Windows XP, which Microsoft will cease selling on 30 June.
"Developers have taken a wait-and-see approach to Vista," said Evans Data president John Andrews.

"The new operating system has had more than its share of problems and the desire to move from XP on the Windows platform is still lagging.

"Coupled with interest in alternative operating systems, this is suppressing development activity and that in turn will further erode Vista's acceptance."

The survey also found that the majority of developers are likely still to favour XP in 2009. Some 24 per cent said that they would be focusing on Vista next year, compared to 29 per cent for XP.

[Martin Ryan]

I think the biggest issue from a TM1 point of view is the amount of RAM it takes up. If it's using all the RAM then there's nothing for TM1 to use.

Personally I haven't used Vista for more than two minutes on someone else's machine so I'm only talking hearsay, but I've yet to hear a sophisticated user say anything positive about it.

Martin

[John Hobson]

but I've yet to hear a sophisticated user say anything positive about it

...and a few hundred thousand signed a petition to M$ asking them not to discontinue sales of XP.

With Windows 7 not due for 3 years or so there a long period of limbo in prospect.

[Alan Kirk]

Thanks guys

I note that MS have now apparently ceased selling XP.

Kinda sorta. From http://www.microsoft.com/windows/letter.html

With the June 30, 2008, "end of sales" date for Windows XP approaching, many people have asked me if they will still be able to get support for Windows XP. The answer is an emphatic "yes, you will continue to be supported." We recently released Service Pack 3 for Windows XP and we will continue to provide security updates and other critical updates for Windows XP until April, 2014. Our ongoing support for Windows XP is the result of our recognition that people keep their Windows-based PCs for many years and a reflection of our commitment to provide the highest level of support for all our customers.

The other question people ask is whether they will be able to buy PCs with Windows XP after June 30. The answer again is "yes." It's true that we will stop selling Windows XP as a retail packaged product and stop licensing it directly to major PC manufacturers. But customers who still need Windows XP will be able to get it. For example:

For businesses small to large, buying Windows Vista Business or Windows Vista Ultimate provides the option to use Windows XP Professional through a customer benefit known as "downgrade rights." Downgrade rights are also available to all business customers that license Windows, such as Windows Vista Enterprise, through our Microsoft Volume Licensing programs. In addition, some of our OEM partners are planning to offer services designed to help business customers that buy these versions of Windows Vista on new PCs to exercise their downgrade rights. This is a great value because it lets you use Windows XP on new PCs today if you need it and then make the move to take advantage of the additional capabilities of Windows Vista when you are ready, without having to pay for an upgrade.

If you're interested in learning more about how to get Windows XP Professional through downgrade rights, contact your favorite PC maker.

As our next generation PC platform, Windows Vista has many advantages that make it the best choice for people who are buying a new Windows-based PC to use at home or in a small business. However, some small business customers may have applications that aren't compatible with Windows Vista. In most cases, your software vendor should have an updated version of these applications. In the case that you still need Windows XP Professional as noted above, you can purchase Windows Vista Business or Windows Vista Ultimate on a new PC and then use downgrade rights until you are ready to upgrade to Windows Vista. When you are ready, you are "future proofed" since you already have a license for Windows Vista.

For customers interested in buying a low-end personal computer (often referred to as a "NetBook" or "NetTop"), we are making Windows XP Home and Windows XP Starter available for use on these budget systems. Additionally, System Builders (sometimes referred to as "local OEMs"), may continue to purchase Windows XP through Authorized Distributors through January 31, 2009. All OEMs, including major OEMs, have this option.

I was kind of hoping it might be possible to start off with a brand new laptop without 5 years worth of "upgrades" needing to be downloaded and applied to XP Sp2 before I do anything else

Apparently SP3 (which I've installed on my notebook which I run TM1 on occasionally) covers the whole smash. Install that, and you should be pretty much up to date:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... laylang=en

Windows® XP Service Pack 3 (SP3) includes all previously released updates for the operating system. This update also includes a small number of new functionalities, which do not significantly change customers’ experience with the operating system.

The only significant change I've noticed to date with XP SP3 is that the Remote Desktop Connection dialog no longer gives you the option of storing the password in the full dialog.

To be honest I've never used Vista so have no idea what it may or may not do.

Is Vista really that awful?

I haven't had the "pleasure" of using it operationally but I've heard from plenty who have. Try to find a good word being said, anywhere, about UAC. It's not getting anywhere near any system that I control for a looooong time.

[Steve Vincent]

Compare previous releases. The move from Win 3.1 was HUGE. All Vista is in reality is a tarted up version of XP, which was itself based on NT4, albeit majorly upgraded at same time. Vista consumes far more resources, and for what gain? To look pretty. I don't much care for what OS i run, i just want it to be fast, reliable and run the software i want. Vista is still pretty poorly supported by software vendors, and i want all my hardware to be working on running my software, not the glassy-looks for the tool bar. I could see big benefits using XP but so far all i see is problems running Vista, and they don't seem to be disappearing all that quick...

[mikegrain]

In my experience Vista is much much slower than XP on the same hardware, even on a pretty high specced PC with a decent graphics card is just feels sluggish. Couple that with the fact that MS added so many security features you have to turn most of them off to make the thing useable - talk about self defeating.

Vista has been compared to Windows ME (Mustn't Ever / Millenium Edition) and not worth bothering with - stick with XP until they sort out Windows 7.

Strangely enough I hear only good things about Server 2008 - which is basically the Vista front ended server platform, it is supposedly very snappy, stable and a joy to use - even in beta.

[mattgoff]

Has anyone tried Architect or Perspectives in Linux+Wine? Office 2003 has a silver rating. Maybe I'll give it a whirl sometime just for grins.

I just started playing around with Linux on the desktop, and I'm relatively impressed. Ubuntu 8.04 installed w/o a hitch on an old laptop and seems like it's running really fast (of course, so does a clean install of XP... at first).

Matt

[David Usherwood]

Matt, I have an Asus EEE 701 which runs a customised Xandros. I installed Wine (not 1.0). Architect 90SP3U4 works fine. Server starts up, shows cubes loading, then dies.

John, I have an instance of Vista under VMWare. 9.1 Server runs fine. Perspectives gives lots of errors but then actually works quite well (I haven't tested everything).

We were part of the 9.4 beta program. 9.4 wouldn't install under Vista - there is an outstanding Service Request for this. We did run it with Office2007 without issues.

I suggest you upgrade from Vista to XP.

[mattgoff]

Matt, I have an Asus EEE 701 which runs a customised Xandros. I installed Wine (not 1.0). Architect 90SP3U4 works fine. Server starts up, shows cubes loading, then dies.

I guess it was hoping for too much for a local server to run. Can you connect/use Architect to connect to and manage a remote server? Did you try the Excel plug-in?

Cheers,
Matt

[jim wood]

Hi John,

A few points:

1) Vista is a big of soething that smells. I had it on my new laptop for quite a while. I removed it when I noticed my urge to throw my new shiney laptop out of my open and not so shiney window.

2) Vista is different under the hud. The registery is DB based to "Increase stability and security". In other words it eats reqource for breakfast as doing simple searches takes forever.

3) Installing TM1 directly on it can be a nightmare.

4) Be careful which laptop you buy if you want to revert back to XP. It is not support by mine. I had to find out who produced each of my my components and downloaded the drivers directly from them. (Couldn't do anything with the chipset s Toshiba themselves produce the drivers.)

5) Vista has more bugs than an ant farm. It is a right nightmare.

6) Did I mention that Vista is rubbish?

Jim.

[David Usherwood]

Matt, I could connect to another server using Architect. I haven't tried installing/running Excel so can't speak for Perspectives.
I might try the inprocess local server with Architect but my hopes aren't high.

[Steve Vincent]

Matt, I have an Asus EEE 701 which runs a customised Xandros. I installed Wine (not 1.0). Architect 90SP3U4 works fine. Server starts up, shows cubes loading, then dies.

If the memory is the standard 512mb then it will have hit the memory limit and shutdown, most likely. Never tried it on mine, don't intend to either just 'cos my EEE is for play not for work

[David Usherwood]

I upgraded it to 1gig using a DIMM from my 'proper' Dell D820 (upgraded to 4gig at Cognos' recommendation to run C8). My demo app isn't that big. Don't think it was running out of RAM.
I'm shocked that you don't get enjoyment from doing bizarre things like installing enterprise software on unsupported hardware and OS's. I managed to setup our Notes mail server to run IMAP over SSL so I could use the EEE's Thunderbird to pick up mail. It would have been better if the really good and helpful tech guy at head office hadn't left the week before...

[jim wood]

There is getting things running when things are not supposed to work and then there is vista. I would put the effort in if I was using an os that I wanted to keep and I enjoyed. With it being Vista, it was just another excuse in my mind to get rid of it.